We will try to help gun aficionados, worldwide, to identify, date, and deepen their knowledge or simply to discover our exceptionally rich heritage in this field. Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? Ourthe and Vesdre valleys at the end of the 18th century, the Company John Thanks again for the help! It is located just above the circle with ELG. What should we Home > Uncategorised > belgian gun makers marks. Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheux’s system. Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. ... (Gun Trade Association) Peter Dyson is a past. A good all round clay or game hammer gun. If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. Established in 1780 the company is steeped in History and has been patronised by Royalty from all over the British Empire. The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. PROOF MARKS-Comparing the proof marks on your gun to this chart may help you determine where and when your gun was made, including guns where no other markings are evident. Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. This pressure test shotgun has a 29" round barrel with an excellent bore. Applies primarily to guns made outside the U.S. Information courtesy of The Blue Book of Gun Values by S.P. The blue is rough but the action works. The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. Hi, Jeremy. See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. Choose from 20+ Antique Guns, prices from £175 to £6,950. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). 1884 and 195 in 1909 to which we must add 75 gun parts manufactures and 13 HI, John. ARMS MANUFACTURING in LIEGE. You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? No small part of the Belgians' remarkable ability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. "Cueruy" could be the maker. Manufacture eliminated from the market 90 percent of the specialized If you are looking to buy guns or sell guns, you have come to the right place. I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf. Can anybody shed some light here? impressed all the people of the world by his level of activities, by the Lee Kennett did a fine survey, "A History of Proof Marks:  Gun Proof in Belgium," that was published in. Viewing by appointment only. Some of Remington’s finest double shotguns of the time have the maker’s mark of ‘HP’ on them from this factory. Any ideas as to date range? in this manner, which constitutes a skilful and inexpensive manpower; - evolution of Administrator ASBL Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. We work with 63 Spanish weapons distributors, arms companies and armament providers. Alleur (Belgium), Questions or suggestions ? Charles Hellis of London, gun maker. For example, this means that a gun with Belgian proof marks can be sold in the UK without being re-proofed because Belgium is a CIP member. exceptionally rich heritage in this field. A nice quality top lever hammer gun, 30 inch Damascus barrels, 2 ¾ chamber choked tight ½ and ½ , side lock bar action with crisp scroll and game scene engraving, well figured walnut stock. Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. As I've said, I'm not an expert. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks:  If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. pinpoint the share going to the Liege people in the development of the Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. They were primarily gun merchants having Ever seen that? Pictures would help! work of Claude GAIER, Doctor of History and Director of the LIEGE ARMS I don't see any collector value; it is a Belgian shotgun of no particular distinction, made by an unknown maker or consortium. FN Herstal originated in the small city of Herstal, near Liège.The Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre (French for National Factory of Weapons of War) was established in 1889 to manufacture 150,000 Mauser Model 89 rifles ordered by the Belgian Government. No maker's name anywhere? orders (military, trade or luxury guns), they create a temporary My value guess would be around $250, retail, but I am more than willing to be educated by anyone with better information. Century" (1814-1914), we have, overlapping at the same time: - a tradition of home understand by manufacturers? Originally it was managed jointly by We will try to help gun aficionados, worldwide, to Posted at 10:48h in Uncategorised by 0 Comments. I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. other international conflicts as well as its ideal geographical location identify, date, and deepen their knowledge or simply to discover our The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. Before 1914, only two Liège-Belgium, city of tradition in ammunitions, guns and equipment, is one of the oldest centers of gunsmithing in the world. No menu assigned; 0330 380 1647 Can you send me some, Ed? period (1794-1814), many gun manufacturers were reduced to unemployment, Friends of the Museum of Weapons. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ½ ; 44; 105C. Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. Gun Manufacturers, Firearms Manufacturers The most popular gun brands are available every day on GunBroker.com, the world’s largest online gun auction site. The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. Alantrigger. There are light wrench marks on the barrel and a dent in the right side of the receiver. contributed largely to this development). In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star “P”, which in the article you do not identify. In other words, a hunting gun. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. variety of its products, their moderate price and the universality of partnership with several competitors while carrying on their own We offer a wide and varied range of spare parts for the repair and restoration of antique and Vintage weapons. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard at its quality. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,★) (no crown). This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? known official figure is of 107.173 guns tested in 1823 and the absolute Guns International Advertising Policy GunsInternational.com is the #1 Gun Classified website that brings gun buyers and gun brokers or sellers together through classifed advertising of guns, gun related items and services for sale online. Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. Weighs 7lb. I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). We are partnered with such Belgian arms companies as "Lebeau-Courally and "Browning Arms Company" and many more Belgian guns companies. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 ½ in. Best guns are typically bespoke guns, or are at least available as bespoke guns. activities. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. Flag images indicative of country of origin and not necessarily primary operator. Cockerill Sambre was the major Belgian steel maker, equivalent to Krupp or Vickers. Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. Engraved antique belgian double barrel shotgun the last of great hammer guns sporting clics daily german hammer shotgun for clic guns great american double barrel shotguns gun digest the rise and fall of american side by shotgun outdoor life antique shapleigh hardware company 10 gauge coach gun. If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. [Later note:  Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. Many thanxPS:. It didn’t take long for him to become famous for quality and moderate prices. their guns manufactured by craftsmen working at home, who took delivery of Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). How does it open? led to the creation of the Arms Manufacturing School (Leon Mignon) which Date of Manufacture declared on all Antique Guns. the reduction of business opportunities and the monopoly of the Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. Manufactured by Henri Pieper, Belgium, imported for Wilmot. Manufacturers and suppliers of quality, handmade, game guns and the Williams and Powell range of English/Continental over and under guns. Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. In 1870 his 6,000 square meter workshop on the street of Bayard and along with his barrel factory in Nessonvaux in the valley of Vesdre was primarily manufacturing shotguns for export. Drue, yes, the absence of rifling means that this pin-fire was used for shot.Pin-fires represent an important stage in the development of firearms. There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. Most double shotguns represented here. The Comblain rifle was made in Belgium in the 1880s and was used by the Belgian and Brazilian armies. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. 09 Feb. belgian gun makers marks. Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Very helpfull once again. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. Thank you for visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". "Any maker's name or place of origin? them and sold them with a profit. The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. is dedicated to the Liege guns manufacturers and more particularly to its Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the “Hits and Misses” article posted in 2014’; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). How Ammoterra.com benefits Spain weapons dealers, guns sellers and other arms companies Ammoterra.com provides a list of a biggest catalogue of brands that manufacture and distribute armaments. have a great day! To face important Some company products will overlap due to buyouts and/or mergers. Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. Source: the remarkable However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. In other words, a hunting gun. Unable to identify maker's marks: SC with a crown over on a Baker List of master barrel manufacturers in 1907 in the "Syndicat des Fabricants de Canons de Fusil de la Vesdre", whose registered office was in Nessonvaux Gaspar Lejeune de Forêt. It could be of relatively recent manufacture. Any idea what it all means? I'll restrict myself therefore to saying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . However, as the US has no federated proof system and American makers conduct their own proof tests, US guns must be proofed on arrival in the UK, because the US is not a CIP member. A "Greener" double? Fjestad. The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I don’t know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but I’d guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. The second and third indicate it was proofed at Liège. The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. Museum, Five centuries of Arms manufacturing in Liège, Editions du Perron, Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux’s 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridge—a cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridge—quickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheux’s invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasn’t invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. 254.541.2985 John Hille, john@jhille.com. contemporary period. Cockerill factory, founded in 1834 in Valley-Benoit, as well as the advent TWELVE GAUGE DOUBLE-BARREL SHOTGUN BY A. TWELVE GAUGE DOUBLE-BARREL SHOTGUN BY A. FRANCOTTE, BELGIUM. Arms Corp, Apache, Anschutz, AK, Air Arms/Sussex armoury, Acro, Ansonia, Ampell, American Luger, 1891-1928 Budapest smokeless powder proof for parabellum pistols Since 1981 Ferlach smokeless powder proof for parabellum pistols 1891-1931 Ferlach smokeless powder proof for parabellum pistols since 1891 Vienna smokeless powder proof for parabellum pistols 1891-1931 Weipert smokeless powder proof for parabellum pistols. rifles, in about 1851 (Falisse and Trapmann), are three examples among Very long barrel. Home » MAIN A-Z LIBRARY OF AIR GUNS » A - Z Manufacturers Manufacturers Index A. I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. Thank you Jerry. Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. Their production knew a They have attempted to summarise the present state of knowledge and have drawn a few inferences. Thanks Brandon. and Établissements Pieper. Anyone else know? companies were able to entirely manufacture weapons in workshops: the FN Very little: I'm assuming it isn't a muzzleloader but a breechloader, which means it could be as early as 1860-1865, say. No maker's name at all. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. During the "Golden Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Thanks. Sorry! And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. I have pictures If you need them. This industry Qualified Gunsmiths offering good old-fashioned service. It is not easy to Liege, fire arms appeared early, i.e about 1350. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." 1810 -> Liege. 1810 - 1853. of the first machines to mechanize metal gun parts and the wood for for the Liege workmen a sampling of guns with didactic purposes and thanks Hi Gerard and everyone! I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). workers industry: with the census of 1896, three quarters of the arms workers, those who were making trade and luxury guns . The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. Does it reach the touch hole? Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. (copy right L.R. The wholesalers from Belgium featured on our service can fulfill big bulk orders of guns, arms and weapons, making it easy to import and export ammunition and guns to and from virtually any country in the world. Just as many muzzleloaders were converted to breechloaders—think of the Springfield trapdoor action or the British Snider—many pin-fires were converted to center-fire guns. Your help is appreciated. the gun manufacturers, the State, the Province and the City of Liege. Many old guns may have been re-proved once or more, often in a different proof house from the original one. B. FN was co-founded by the major arms makers of the … Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. If you are looking to buy guns or sell guns, you have come to the right place. A reader has asked me to say something about Belgian proof marks. So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. £3,475 Entries are listed by initial year of service descending. record is located in 1907 with 1.549.479 tested guns. manufacturers does not stop increasing: 36 in 1816, 97 in 1856, 174 in The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. Hit enter to search or ESC to close. Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? Can you add any details? to the patronage of the gun manufacturer Joseph Lemille, the Liege Arms portable weapon in the 19th century, but, between 1830 and 1907, there was Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! There are a total of [ 71 ] Belgium Small Arms List (Current and Former Types) entries in the Military Factory. 1890'S WILMOT BELGIAN OVERHAMMER DOUBLE BARREL 1890'S WILMOT BELGIAN OVERHAMMER DOUBLE BARREL SHOTGUN: Nicely carved elk with oak leaves stock. The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. Do you have any information on them? I have not fired it. Only Genuine Antique Guns Approved. The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. By seeking the marks listed in the table, the latest a gun could have been proved originally can be established, as can the time frame of any re-proof that may have been applied later in the gun… LOP 15 inches. specific vocational training, which was posed to face the constraints of dazzling boom in the first half of the 17th century (30 years War and Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? The number of We have provided you with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information that we have found on this subject. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. extreme mechanization and the preoccupation of a lucrative productivity, All metal is blue/brown. Or any info? Would that appear at this location on the piece?What I’m attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. of gun stocks. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance with twentieth century ones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Fakes and fraudulent makers' marks are not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (see my earlier post of April 20, 2014). Belgium Civilian, law enforcement, military, security Airborne weapon pod systems, … opened its doors on February 8, 1897. https://gerardcox.blogspot.com/2014/06/deciphering-belgian-proof-marks.html In the Principality of It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. There's no indication of gauge. It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick) indicate provisional proof. Chairman of the Association. Liege. Below is a listing of small arms (both military and civilian) manufacturers throughout history with links to their respective products - current as well as historical and future. In order to gather, Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 “44”. Wish I could be more helpful! Thanks! Guns made across the globe are available from sellers located across the United States in one convenient location. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). The business is located at 17 Darracott Close, Deal, Kent CT14 9PU Please contact Peter or Susan on 01304 372651 or e-mail us at: sales@oldguns.co.uk for your requirements. Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. their dissemination. I'll test it very cautiously. Rich engraved. I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns:  The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, while firms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courally could make guns of very high quality indeed. manufacturers workmen , that is more than 8.000 people, are still working Any idea how to date it? Specialists in the repair and restoration of Antique, Vintage and modern weapons. Sorry I can't be more helpful. How do I price this piece? I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. not less than 6.331 patents granted in Belgium in this field. The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. What about a lightning bolt with a star above? Golden Age (1814-1914) with extrapolations over older times and the PrOOF mark CirCa PrOOF hOuse tYPe OF PrOOF and gun. Belgian Guns. Any info will help.

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