5.. The Lord promised Nephi he would be led “towards the promised land” and “after ye have arrived in the promised land” (I Nephi 17:13-14). “...And they were driven....towards the promised land” (I Nephi 18:8). Etusivu / Yleinen / wayne may mulekites. Home / Yleinen / wayne may mulekites. A request that the University of Michigan evaluate the relics and publish its findings led to further scholarly investigation. Professor Francis Kelsey of the University’s Latin department made his own assessment of the objects. He enlisted Dr. Morris Jastrow, a respected expert on Middle Eastern languages at the University of Pennsylvania. Not content to reach merely a local audience, the two sent their denunciations of the Michigan Relics to a national magazine, Morris Jastrow, 1892 declared: “I beg of you to announce that the tablets and monuments claimed to have been excavated are willful forgeries, remarkable only for their clumsy character and the great ignorance betrayed by the forger.”. 4.   The Prophet Joseph Smith said, as editor, in the Times and Season September issue, 1842 that the “ruins of Zarahemla have been found” in Guatemala and, therefore, he believed the land southward was not in South America but in Central America. Rating. It is entitled, “The Jaredites…Who are They? His book mistakenly claims that the Adena culture was the Jaredite civilization and the Hopewell culture was the Nephite Nation. His map at page 75 shows the following: 1.     River Sidon as the Mississippi running south instead of north. November 2003 LATIN – apologeticus GREEK – apologetikos Apologetics: “The branch of theology that is concerned with defending or proving the truth of Christian doctrines” (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition, Houghton Mifflin Company, 2009). You're on to something pretty darned intriguing.  The Amlicite battles occurred within the months of December through March. See Dr. Lund pages 207-209. May has since learned that the evidenced for forgery is so strong that even he cannot deny it. The newer approach is slightly different: Did the Scotford brothers make some fake artifacts? Somebody did. All the men I have visited who have seen the collection in Salt Lake City, or now in Lansing, Michigan agree there are fakes in the collection. The Scotfords may or may not have been forgers, but someone surely was. However, just as courts of law require two or more witnesses to convict or identify the accused, so we have witnesses who have testified on behalf of some of the Michigan relics. Thanks to Rudalf Etzenhouser, we have signed testimonials by several witnesses as to the discovery and disclosure of such artifacts. 2. The climate of northeastern United States would not permit the native men to have lived during the winter with only a loin cloth and with shaved heads let alone going to war during that time (Lund pages 207-210, Alma 3:5, 43:20, 3rd Nephi 4:7), nor could Alma and Amulek have survived more than 2 weeks in jail naked during the last of December through the first of January (Alma 14:21-28). Wayne May. Fraud is defined as an intentional untruth or dishonest scheme used to take deliberate advantage of another. Actual fraud includes cases of misrepresentation designed to cheat others. Actual fraud also includes something said, done or omitted with the design of continuing what a person knows to be a deception. Constructive fraud includes untruths or misrepresentations that one knows or should reasonably know to be untrue.Â. 2. Zarahemla cannot be on or near the Mississippi. It must be west of a river that flows northerly and it must be just north of a narrow strip of mountainous wilderness that runs continuously and in a straight course from the east sea to the west sea (Alma 22:27 and 3Nephi 4:1 and Mosiah 7:4-6). … The chief claim, and the premise of the entire book, is that Hebrews carried the message of the coming Messiah on a voyage across the Atlantic. The Adena culture refers to what were probably a number of related Native American societies sharing a burial complex and ceremonial system. 10…also they have brought breastplates, which are large, and they are of brass and of copper, and are perfectly sound, 11…they have brought swords, the hilts thereof have perished, and the blades thereof were cankered with rust…. Stamps also examined some of the copper pieces, yielding the same microscopical conclusion as the report to Talmage. The pieces are modern smelted copper: He states the following: In cross-section, I observed that the temperature difference on the surface differs slightly from the temperature at the center. This difference is another evidence that the piece was made from smelted ingots that had been hot-rolled. Additionally, the piece I studied was too flat to have been built up by the cold-hammer, folding, laminating process that we see in Native American artifacts. This piece clearly has no folds or forging laps. It is also extremely regular in thickness, with a range of .187 to .192 inches. A measurement of.1875 equals 3/16 of an inch—a Standard English unit of measurement and common thickness for commercially produced rolled stock. Much of the following information comes from Brant Gardner’s above mentioned article published in 2008. All quotes from Brant Gardner will be italicized. I will summarize a few evidences against the Michigan plates and artifacts however, first it is instructive to relate their origin as described by Fred Raydholm at page 27 of Gardner’s article: The “Michigan Tablets” tale begins around 1885, in Big Rapids, where James O. Scotford, one-time sleight-of-hand performer turned sign-painter, was displaying an almost clairvoyant ability to discover Indian artifacts in prehistoric mounds. Download Free Especially For Mormons 5 Volume Set www.hammondtoy.co m by Hammond Toys, Hobbies and Dolls 8 years ago 33 seconds 64 views RECREATE YOUR … 15….Moroni,--who had established armies to protect the south (Manti area) and west borders of the land (west seacoast area). Â. Further evidence of the impossibility of the clay objects’ antiquity is that they dissolve in water and thus could not have survived in Michigan ground. 6.     The west sea as all of the Great Lakes. WHY BOOK OF MORMON EVENTS COULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED IN THE UNITED STATES: BUT ONLY IN MESOAMERICA. Wayne is an Elder in the LDS Church. Coriantumr had to have lived between about 350 BC and 221 BC. He had to have been found by the people of Zarahemla about 250 years after the Mulekites arrived in the Promised Land. This means that for at least 250 years the Nephites and the Jaredites were coexisting neighbors occupying separate land areas. The New World was the Old World. (book), Map of the Archaeological Cultures of Ohio. ... How Mormon and Moroni knew the hill Cumorah of the Book of Mormon was the same hill as that which the Jaredites called Ramah, is not explained, but of a type we have answers that are quite clear to us when we consider them. The Book of Mormon seems consistent in the use of the two terms. The land of promise in North America is not the promised land where Lehi and Columbus landed in Mesoamerica.             Many of the artifacts are on slate. Talmage had earlier seen clear evidence of modern saw cuts on slate artifacts, an observation Stamps confirms. Michigan does not have slate quarries, but there was a large business importing slate roofing tiles during the appearance of the Michigan relics. Many of the “relics” clearly demonstrate the markings of commercially cut and milled slate.                      Â.  The principle scriptures in I Nephi 13:-29 that absolutely place the United States within the “land of promise” state: 13.            …I beheld the Spirit of God, that it wrought upon other Gentiles, and they went forth out of captivity, upon the many waters. Thus we see that there were at least two groups of Gentiles that were prophesied to come to “this continent” as stated by Moroni. Alma 2:26…people of Nephi took their tents, and departed out of the valley of Gideon towards their city, which was the city of Zarahemla. Any proposed Book of Mormon geography that does not meet all of the above criteria cannot be the land of the Book of Mormon. Jaredites, Nephites, and Mulekites came across the Atlantic. to (see discussion following). The concept of the Mississippi as the river Sidon is fatally flawed. The concept of the Adena/Hopewell cultures being the Jaredite/Nephite cultures is fatally flawed. The concept of the Book of Mormon lands being in the United States of America is also fatally flawed for many additional reasons. These people then converted the materials into, them through local and regional exchange networks.Â, The Jaredite/Nephite people coexisted for at least 250 years, The concept of the Mississippi as the river Sidon is fatally flawed. The concept of the Adena/Hopewell cultures being the Jaredite/Nephite cultures is fatally flawed. The concept of the Book of Mormon lands being in the United States of America is also fatally flawed for many additional reasons. • Reader: “…which is why I simply said watch Wayne May's videos before dismissing them out of hand. It’s a dismaying mass of contradictions - but hey, at least it includes scriptural Cumorah! Babby 18 November 2020 at 01:20. The narrow neck is 30 miles wide. As stated above, Joseph Smith also said that within “this continent” or Zion, the city of Zarahemla had been found in Guatemala. Watch as Wayne May presents the parallels in geography, archaeology and timelines between the Jaredites and the Adena Civilization of North America. 1892: The inscriptions are largely a horrible mixture of Phoenician, Egyptian and ancient Greek characters taken at random from a comparative table of alphabets such as is found at the back of Webster’s Dictionary. ...did land upon the shore of the promised land...and...set their feet upon the shores of the promised land... 16...and they also begat sons and daughters before they came to the promised land...             In Ether 7:27 it repeats “across the great deep into the promised land.”, Map showing landing place of Lehi, the “Spanish gentiles”, and the “English” gentiles. 6.          The area must have been visited by Columbus because he was led by the Lord to “the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land” (I Nephi 13:12). It was the same promised land that the Lord guided the Nephites,”…we did arrive at the promised land…and we did call it the promised land” (1 Nepi 18:23). To claim the Michigan Plates contained Cuneiform writing is an untruth. 8. Buddy Davis Replies. The Adena culture was a Pre-Columbian Native American culture that existed from 1000 BC to 200 BC, in a time known as the early Woodland Period. His continuing to use them as if authentic, all the while claiming he does not take sides, is to me, fraudulent. He is the one benefitting from the use and sale of these artifacts and from tours. He is the one telling the scientific community to prove them false, which it already has. May has not offered competent scientific rebuttal but merely his personal speculations, conclusions, and unverified testimonials. Watch as Wayne May presents many of the ancient American artifacts found in North America and see how they line up with the Nephite, Lamanite and Jaredite culture. For example, the United States is where Adam-ondi-Ahman was; where the New Jerusalem city will be built; where the Gospel was restored, etc. Alma 2:34…thus he cleared the ground, or rather the bank, which was on the west of the river Sidon, throwing the bodies of the Lamanites who had been slain into the waters of Sidon, that thereby his people might have room to cross and contend with the Lamanites and the Amlicites on the west side of the river Sidon. This material is phenomenal. I personally believe that in the face of all the evidence shown above, and in Brant Gardner’s two articles, May has perpetrated a fraud. He should follow Edwin Goble’s, example and recant and accept the truth. Your email address will not be published. 2013 BoM EConf. (D). Elimination of all theories that do not meet all of the above criteria. I met Rod for the first time in November, 2002 in… It is estimated that the final battle of the Jaredites occurred between 250 and 300 BC. This estimate is confirmed by the fact that about the year 121 BC the 43 people of Limhi returned from the land Desolation with the 24 pure gold plates together with rusted swords. Mosiah 8:8-11 states in part: 8…having discovered a land which was covered with bones of men, and of beasts; and was also covered with ruins of buildings of every kind having discovered a land which had been peopled with a people who were as numerous as the hosts of Israel. The lands of the Nephites, Lamanites, Jaredites, and the People of Zarahemla are coming into fine view inside the continental United States and southern Canada. In law the burden of proof has long since shifted to May to prove by verifiable scientific evidence that the conclusions of Dr. James E Talmage, Dr. Morris Jastrow, Professor Francis Kelsey, James B Stamps and many others are false. To satisfy the critic who believes the archaeological record of Western New York is complete, with no anomalies, we offer the fact that large bones, i.e. May gives another disclaimer and plea for the scientific community to prove or disprove these artifacts. At page 19 of his book May states: The true critical evidence on the Michigan tablets has yet to come. Real evidence will come when they are put through tests to determine their authenticity. Then they will either be declared frauds definitively, or they will move into the category of proven artifacts. Until that time they are in the limbo category, as it were, of controversial artifacts. Only real tests and real evidence can authenticate them or prove them as fraudulent.Â. 7. The Great Lakes cannot be the west sea because the west sea must be west of the river Sidon.   Not one of the Great Lakes is west of the Mississippi. And the west sea must be west of Zarahemla; west of the narrow strip of mountainous wilderness; and west of the land of Nephi. Alma 52:11-15 corroborates the above and states: 11….I [Moroni] would come unto you, but behold the Lamanites are upon us in the borders of the land by the west sea. And behold I go against them therefore I cannot come unto you. 18.            ...The power of God was with them and also that the wrath of God was upon all those that were gathered together against them to battle. 5. There is no evidence of many ruins surrounding said narrow strip of wilderness that date from about 200 BC to AD 400. 6   . …they were wroth with him when they had arrived in the promised land… (Mosiah 10:15). "Giants." The Book of Mormon makes several scientific claims that can be tested. The other “English” Gentiles who came out of captivity never “went” to the “promised land” but they were in the “land of promise”. I Nephi 13:12, 14, states that Nephi beheld that: 12....the Spirit of God ...wrought upon other gentiles: and they went forth out of captivity, upon the many waters. Then imagine the Nephites traveling and fighting approximately 15 miles from the crossing of the river Sidon to Gideon where they stayed the night. He refers to a statement made by Joesph Smith at about the 53 minute mark that the Jaredites are descendants of Ham! Wayne May shows the writings of Joseph Smith Jr., Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer concerning the location of the Hill Cumorah. The Prophets Lesson:- Perfect In Christ. The material below covers the geography of the Book of Mormon in North America. Wayne May presents the supporting evidence for the Heartland Model, that the Book of Mormon Nephites and Jaredites lived in North America. Even the edges have been peaned (hammered to remove the straight edges), whereas most traditional pieces are diamond shaped with a strong ridge running down the center of the blade or point. The blank piece of copper from which the artifact was made appears to have been cut from a larger piece with a guillotine-style table shear or bench shear. The Adena lived in a variety of locations, including: Ohio, Indiana, West Virginia, Kentucky, and parts of Pennsylvania and New York. Watch as Wayne May presents the parallels between the geography of the Hopewell and Adena civilizations and the Book of Mormon records. 8.          River Sidon must have its headwaters between the east sea and the west sea near Manti on the northern side of the narrow strip of mountainous wilderness and it must flow northerly past and on the east side of Zarahemla. The River Sidon cannot flow southerly from the narrow strip of mountainous wilderness. 5. Land of Manti cannot be in Missouri. It must be high up in the Narrow Strip of Wilderness and near the head of river Sidon. The river Sidon cannot flow south from Manti (see above scriptures). Come on a Book of Mormon Tour and see the archaeological discoveries of the Nephites and Jaredites. 2.   The Liahona and Nephi guided the ship to the promised land, I Nephi 18:22.